When friendship hurts

At the end of my last post I mentioned that fear of losing friendship was a major reason why guys don’t ask girls out. In fact I should be more specific, it is often why I haven’t asked girls out. And that makes this a difficult piece to write, because when I talk generally I am really doing little more than publicise my introspection.

But I don’t think I’m alone, so hopefully this will be helpful. I’m also going to include some different points of view which effectively turn the issue on its head.

For me friendships with girls have got in the way in two different ways. Firstly, there have been girls who I am friends with who I fancy (a dreadful term but it does the job).

The fear here is that I might endanger our friendship either by broaching the subject and finding it not reciprocated, or by any ensuing relationship going sour.

At most points in my life I have had better relationships with girls than guys. At times I have found myself interested in a girl that strolls into my life unattached, but invariably exits stage right on the arm of another.

My attractions have always remained muted, leaving me to wonder whether I missed an opportunity to grasp everlasting happiness. I rationalise these doubts away, thinking that as in hindsight nothing came of these proto-relationships I was better off not pursuing them, and saving myself the inevitable awkwardness that would have ensured had I broached the subject and they declined as they were destined to do in my curiously pessimistic mental role play. Really, I’m just a wimp.

The second scenario is where I am not interested in more than friendship, and perhaps as a result easily slip into an emotional dependency. A friend put it something like this: guys are such good friends with girls that they don’t feel the need for a girlfriend. I’m not sure I would ever put it quite as starkly as that, but I suspect at least subconsciously that I receive a dose of affirmation and attention from girls that cause me to question my need for anything more. Dependency can be toxic, and while a lot of this happens subconsciously I think it is fair to acknowledge female friend dependency.

There’s a particular issue here for Christians who are assiduously encouraged to preserve sex for marriage. This means that they, we, I, have dismissed physical attraction and temptation as off limits. The mindset is often that ‘I shouldn’t be having these feelings’. It becomes hard in this scenario to differentiate between a close female friend, and a girl you like because the physical attraction is thought of as less than pure and therefore removed from the equation.

Rarely, if ever, have I had a sole female friend who becomes in effect a pseudo girlfriend, because I have many female friends, which has a good and a bad side. Good: I don’t want to be inappropriately close to just one girl. Bad: I like to preserve my friendships with multiple girls.

This is slightly absurd, while I am single I excuse emotional closeness with different girls but when you are in a relationship with one this is not sustainable. I know deep down that this is an inevitable, essential and worthy sacrifice, but I still resist.

I’ve talked to a few girls about this to see if it is the same the other way round. And I don’t think it is quite the same, girls are emotionally open with each other in a way that guys aren’t. I also think that guys are more likely to be ignorant of any faux relationship that develops in a friendship.

One girl I spoke to made a lot of just how manipulative girls can be, ‘they take craziness to a whole different level’. She only claimed to be speaking for herself but the point was that girls will go to extraordinary lengths if they are interested in a guy.

Guys can also be premeditated in trying to show their attraction in pretty minute ways, I know that I have been. But at the risk of confirming the stereotype of guys, the lengths that girls go to may not necessarily be picked up with the same forensic scrutiny with which they were planned.

I made a big deal in an earlier post that guys are not all the same and neither are girls. So all I’ve said should come with a health warning – it might be entirely irrelevant to you.

I was chatting with a guy yesterday about female friends and his experience struck a very different chord to mine. His concern was that even within a church overflowing with single ladies he found it hard to develop friendships with them, and as a result struggled to know whether there might be any relationship in the offing.

I’ll wrap this up by circling in on something I said before, the disassociation of physical affection from relationships outside marriage. By presenting marriage as something other, and that as the sole place for physical intimacy, the line between close male and female friends and a ‘relationship’ is too easily blurred.

Why guys don’t ask girls out

Yesterday I wrote my first proper blog, and I got more feedback from it than I expected. The topic seems to have scratched where people itch.

I’ve had tweets, emails and comments from people I would not have expected, as well as the strange transition when some one talks to me in person about what I wrote. (Note to self: the blog is public.)

So my tentative conclusion is that this classifies as a Big Issue. But this blog is not going to be all about relationships, and I am certainly not the person to write it even if it was. I’m going to offer some tentative thoughts in a moment to spring wide the debate, and there are at least two more posts on the topic coming soon (‘idealised notion of romance’, and ‘where does male headship fit into all this’). However, I will also be posting on a few other topics in between, and trying to explain what ‘broken cameras and gustav klimt’ means.

I am rather unqualified to pontificate on this topic. Sure, I talk to plenty of people about relationships. I talk to plenty of girls about them. But the conversation goes one of two ways, either talking about their love life, or them telling me to man up and ask girls out. On one occasion a girl who I didn’t know that well asked me quite out of the blue whether I was asking girls out. I prevaricated, waffled and probably just about got around to saying no.

I’m not offering any answers below, I’d welcome you thoughts, ideas and suggestions about how to deal with it.

Fear.

That’s why. That’s why guys in church don’t ask girls out. And this works itself out in multiple ways:

  1. Fear of commitment. This is the obvious one but I don’t think that major. There are certainly guys who like to play the field and don’t want to settle down, but the bigger impact of this is that it leads to…
  1. Fear of uncommitment (yep I made that word up). Guys shy away from asking girls out because they don’t want to be seen as frivolous, they don’t want to be seen as lacking commitment. The logic goes: if I ask someone out, she’ll tell her friends and then if I ever want to ask one of those out they’ll know that I’d already asked one of her friends out, and she will then think that I don’t think she’s the one. Yes, guys do think like this. And they don’t want to be seen as playing the field.
    This is where the Joshua Harris school of thought has had a damaging impact. Guys have been encouraged to be cautious and wait until they ‘know’.
  1. Fear of rejection. This is pretty obvious. Guys don’t want to be turned down so they don’t ask. There may be a whole host of guys out there who ask girls on dates left right and centre and not caring one iota what the reaction is. I know they exist but I think they’re a pretty rare breed. And those who do? Well my hunch is that they do care, I don’t want to go all psychobabble but rejection hurts, the more it happens the more you might get used to it, but the hurt is still there, a scab has just grown over it.
    I said I wasn’t giving answers, here’s something that’s not the answer: girls saying yes to dates regardless – that’s called leading a guy on.
  1. Fear of getting it wrong. Guys are afraid that if they ask a girl out they will screw it up. I don’t mean the relationship, I mean the act of asking a girl out. And the potential embarrasment that might ensue, which conveniently leads me to…
  1. Fear of losing friends. In the church I think this one is the silent killer of romance. Gaggles of guys and girls who are friends but nothing more. A wide tundra stretches between friendship and romance that gets larger by the day. A few years ago I dubbed this ‘female friend dependency theory’, and that deserves a post of its own.

Can all of these be answered by asking men to man up? Or is there more of a problem at the root?

The Church Kissed Dating Goodbye

This is not a post about dating, at least not really. It’s about me. It is about you. It’s about men and it is about women.

Twice in the past few weeks I have found myself in formal discussions about marriage, and being the only single person present I was turned to for the single person’s perspective. And here is the first problem: everyone is different.

Don Miller has written a couple of long posts giving advice for guys and girls on how to live a great love story. And following the comments on twitter led me to Ally Spott’s blog, and in particular a great guest post from Darrell Vesterfelt. It also took me further, delving into the hinterland of advice available for young (and those growing less young) Christians approaching relationships.

My first reaction is of quiet rebellion, resisting the broad generalisations in how guys and girls behave. I want to insist that I am not like that, and neither are many of the guys I know. I also want to reject the thinly veiled chauvinism that is often masqueraded as male headship. I also wanted to respond but had no outlet, so I started this blog.

One more piece of context before I kick off with some thoughts of my own. A couple of weeks ago the question of masculinity in the church got a whole lot of prominence on the interweb because some guy who leads a relatively large church as well as a baying legion of hipsters made a rather crass remark about effeminate worship leaders. #effemigate sparked a flurry of posts rejecting its bullying mentality. I also picked ‘Why Men Hate Going To Church’ by David Murrow off my sister’s bookshelf, and ploughed through it with exponentially mounting frustration.

I grew up in a church with lots of young people, and lots of young people who didn’t really date. So when Joshua Harris was at the height of his popularity his words didn’t really hit home. I also adopted a classic posture of British superiority – ‘well that might be how it is in the states, but here we’re much more civilised’. I now go to a church with hundreds of young adults in central London, most of whom (70% plus) are single, and by that I mean single, not just not married but not in relationships. So while the criticism of casual dating that was at it’s peak a few years back rang hollow the current meme of why Christians aren’t dating more hits home with a lot more force.

There’s quite a head of steam behind it at the moment, it is a conversation I have with remarkable frequency: why aren’t guys asking girls out?

Darrell’s post touches on the question of pursuit and initiation and the conversation goes on in the comments, settling around the idea that it is the man’s job to pursue but that shouldn’t stop the girl from initiating. I think the question resounding from the cheap seats is: what on earth does this look like? Initiating but not pursuing?

Pursuit is in danger of becoming the concept around which we define the male role in relationships. And the problem with that is it makes it like a quest, and it appeals to the rather tarnished idea of conquest. Me man, win woman.

John Eldridge, David Murrow and co have this idea of men lugging huge tree trunks up a mountain and making fire from a squirrel’s tail. And that’s the kind of masculinity I have the most affinity for. Except I also know girls that like adventure and the great outdoors, and believe it or not, I know guys who like to crochet.

I know effeminate men, I know strong women. We label characteristics with pejorative adjectives, strong women might be described as butch. It is less manly to be effeminate and less ladylike to be aggressive.

And this is where I think Mark Driscoll gets it wrong, we should affirm and validate people for who they are, not who we think they should be. I do not deny that men and women are different, but there are as many differences within each gender as between them. 

If we centre our understanding of masculinity and femininity on difference, and the idea of man as pursuer, provider and protector, there is an ensuing impact on how guys view girls. Even the language conveys meaning, to be a ‘guy’ is strong and compatible with being an adult. Whereas, ‘girl’ kind of runs out of steam, it pigeon holes women pre-marriage into a childlike state, a boy becomes a guy but a girl remains a girl. 

The corollary of man as adventurer, is too often to see woman as meek and mild. And it is this casually dismissive posture that makes me shudder. I think guys do need to man up, but this doesn’t mean that women are neutered.

Masculinity and femininity are not two mutually exclusive life forms, they are both found to some extent in everyone. How we talk about men and women in relationships should reflect this diversity and not try to expel it.

Maybe that’s a controversial enough statement to finish on…

I told you this wasn’t really about dating, but the next one will be: ‘In defence of guys not asking girls out’.